A Typical Conversation

Below, is an email exchange of mine with my good friend J-----. I met J----- as a member of the LDS church many years ago, and we've stayed in contact despite moves, his mission, and other things. Recently, after being out of touch for a while, we reconnected. I told him that I had left the church and about this blog. Here is what he had to say:

Hi "Galatian",

I tried calling you a few times in the past two weeks but your phone number isn't connected or isn't working right now. I appreciated hearing from you and about how things are going in your life. In regards to your blog, I have not and will not be visiting it.

I can understand that you have gone through a lot of tough times and that it wasn't easy for you to connect with the Church culture. I can also understand that leaders of the Church today and in the early days of the Church have made and will continue to make mistakes (such is life for all of us). You have read some things that have made you think that the Church is corrupt. One important principle to remember in all of this however, is that the Lord and His Church are perfect and although the members and leaders of His Church are imperfect, He will never allow the Church to be led astray by its leaders.

Doctrines of the Church are established when the majority of the quorum of the 12 Apostles and the First Presidency are agreed to the doctrine and they declare it as doctrine (not as personal opinion or insight). The members are then under the responsibility to seek the Lord for their own personal witness of that declared doctrine. Putting all of historical and logical methods aside, the ONLY way one can know that the Church is true and divine is by the power of the Holy Ghost. How can one truly understand a person and what he/she is about without talking directly with him/her? Likewise, how can one truly understand God and His teachings without communicating with Him? We need the help and influence of the Holy Ghost to know and understand the things of God and we need the constant help of the Holy Ghost to hold on to that divine truth.

When we learn something that is true and from God, it brings peace, joy, understanding, etc. to our souls. Through my best efforts in keeping God's commandments, exercising my mental capacities, and the witness of the Holy Ghost, I know the L.D.S. Church is the Lord's Church and that the Prophets who lead it are called of God. I hope these things I have said will remind you of the feelings you felt when you joined the Church or when you met the missionaries for the first time (at your door). If you get your phone connected again, please let me know.

Luv ya. Sincerely, J------.

(I apologize to J-- for using his email without permission, but seeing as it had no personal or identifying information (only his apologetics) I felt it was reasonable. I write this in case he ever decides to take a look at this blog after all ;-)

Here is my response:

J-----,

Thanks for the note. We'll simply have to agree to disagree. What disturbs me most about the LDS church is its obvious brainwashing which was so apparent in your email ... that's why I call it a cult. It's not a criticism of you, I used to be the same ... just an observation. The problem with the LDS church is that it relies on a personal emotional manifestation of the truth, instead of empirical evidence, facts, or plain logic and reason. I have Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses and everyone under the sun testifying to me of the truthfulness of their church/book, and how I can know through prayer. Of course, the reason I know they aren't true is observing the doctrine and history, using logic, and plain facts.

I realize that the church leaders aren't perfect, and that's fine. But I disagree with the idea that they can never lead the church astray through the power of the Holy Spirit or God. To accept that, I would have to accept that Brigham Young was divinely inspired when he supported slavery, spoke hatred towards blacks, racism in the church etc. I'd have to believe he was divinely inspired when he said that Adam was God manifested in the flesh, and that Jesus Christ supported slitting people's throats, and that his sacrifice was not enough to atone for ALL sins and that sometimes we must be killed for our sins (Blood Atonement). All of this of course, can be found quoting Brigham directly in the Journal of Discourses. And what did Brigham say of the JoD? Well they are a compilation of his talks and sermons given in church and in the temples. Seeing as he was the Prophet of the Church and claimed it all was doctrinal, revelation ... I think we can take his word for it when he states that anything written in it (and later edited by him) is the word of God and as good of scripture as the Bible itself.

I will not put my logic aside and "pray" to know if something is true. Otherwise my prayer and the so-called Holy Spirit might tell me that I should be a Muslim, or Jehovah's Witness, heck maybe even a Scientologist. No, I will use my logic. And my logic deduces that any church which was racist for hundreds of years (and still is -- because I don't believe black skin is a curse of Cain, nor do I believe I am half descended from cursed Jews), or that had killing squads wipe out its enemies (Danites, etc), or that had Blood Atonement and murdered people, or that had a Prophet having sex with married women, pregnant women, teenage girls (as young as 14), or already-married women, who has proven to have made up the Book of Abraham and Book of Mormon, to which there is NO empirical evidence for, and who falsely translated the Kinderhook Plates, and more ... must be false. It's quite simple.

Mormons claim they have faith in Jesus Christ. But let me ask: who is your faith in? Is your faith in Jesus Christ, or Joseph Smith? For if evidence proves that Smith was a fraud and the church is a lie, why fear? If you proclaim that Jesus is your Saviour, than what difference does it make if the LDS church is false - because you still are saved and have a saviour? It really makes me wonder why Mormons are so fearful of the truth. I can only surmise that their faith truly is in Joseph Smith, and in a church where salvation is based on 'works' (temple work, etc) and not really faith.

And on an end note, I felt something when the missionaries came to my door because I was a young, naive girl who would have believed the moon was made of cheese if they so told me. Thank goodness that is not the case anymore. I tell you all this with much love and affection, though it may seem rude, because I hope you too will come to see the truth ...

Take care, glad you're doing well. xoxo

Luv, 'Galatian'.

Galatian's Note:

I really, truly do love my LDS friends. I have three best friends that are LDS members, whom I hope will always be my friends and be in my life. But let me state quite honestly that sometimes I struggle with our friendships. It's sad, but true.

I originally created this blog for my best friends. I was hoping they would read it if I, a best friend, had created it. I hoped they would give me the benefit of the doubt, have an open mind, and look at it. To my knowledge, none of them have viewed it.

Any conversations we have regarding the LDS church always follow the same pattern: they testify of its truthfulness, they tell me to pray and seek the "Spirit" to validate it, they quote faith-promoting rumors, verses, doctrines, etc. They then tell me that I'm mistaken, that I've been led astray by 'apostate material' and that they don't wish to discuss ANY of the evidence, quotations or questions that I have. They are quite happy to leave their head buried in the sand.

And for me, I have a great deal of difficulty keeping my tongue and my temper, because it's all so absurd. And I feel angry that my friends are in a cult - a full out fraudulent enterprise and religion, donating their time and money and all of it for nothing. But they refuse to accept the truth. What can one do?

I also have an increasingly difficult time feeling close to people who believe I will be going to hell for being an apostate (or denying the Holy Ghost), or at the very least believe they will be up tarrying about in the Celestial Kingdom becoming Gods in all their glory looking down woefully upon their poor apostate friend in the lowest levels of heaven. How arrogant; how ridiculous!

I suppose I should just be plain thankful they haven't completely cut me out of their lives, as the church generally counsels to do -- especially since I, the "apostate" have been giving them the true facts ... or as the church would call it: "anti mormon material" all part of the reason no doubt, they should never associate with me again - lest they learn the facts!

It is just a personally frustrating and sad time for me, looking at my friends' condition. And I can't help but pity them, as they no doubt 'pity' me.

Just another example of how the LDS church breaks apart family and friends ...

Gordon B. Hinckley - Deceased.

Wow, thanks to Samuel the Utahnite for cluing me in to this big Mormon news.

Here is a video clip about the life and death of Gordon B. Hinckley:



Some basic Hinckley FACTS:

Gordon B. Hinckley was born on June 23rd, 1910, in Salt Lake City Utah. He graduated high school and then attended the University of Utah. He served a mission in England (based in London), during the Great Depression.

After returning he served many positions and functions in the church, he was married in 1937 in the Salt Lake Temple, and later had five children.

In 1958 he became a General Authority, and in 1961 he became a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. In 1981 he became a member of the First Presidency: Second Counsellor.

In 1985 Hinckley became First Counsellor as Ezra Taft Benson became President; and in the early 90's became President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles through seniority.
Hinckley became President of the LDS church in 1995, after the death of his predecessor Howard W. Hunter who only lived nine months.

Gordon B. Hinckley was best known for: being the oldest living prophet of the LDS church, building numerous temples and churches, being "media-accessible", his "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" statement, the Perpetual Education Fund, and his constant travelling.

He died on January 27th, 2008 in Salt Lake City, Utah, at age ninety-seven.

To read more about Hinckley: CLICK HERE.

Now I really urge all readers to check out the Exposing Mormonism Tribute to Gordon B. Hinckley, which includes the videos below (watch them all!) :

Hinckley distorting the facts on Larry King Live/montage:

 In it, Hinckley tries to act as though the LDS church simply "adds a little goodness and another testament of Christ" to already existing churches, and as though Christians can be 'saved' without Mormonism. This is of course, blatantly false as anyone who ever has been Mormon knows. The LDS church teaches it is the only true church on earth, with the only priesthood authority, the only living prophet, a "restoration" of true Christianity, and that one must accept Mormonism in order to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom. This and many other lies ... err ... "gentle explanations".

Hinckley speaks out against Racism in the LDS church:



Now I put up the previous video just to showcase the sheer hypocrisy of it all. Hinckley says no racist man can consider himself a disciple of Christ, which is interesting when we look back on statements by Brigham Young that were pro-slavery, and showed hatred of African-Americans (cursed with dark skin, disobedient people will turn black, anyone who marries a black person will die on the spot, this will always be so, etc). In addition, we can add the many racist statements of other prophets, with John Taylor coming particularly to mind.

Then of course, there is our modern day. Is it any wonder there is racism in the LDS church? It does teach after all that Black-skinned people are in fact cursed from Cain (Pearl of Great Price), the descendants of Cain, they were only allowed the priesthood in 1978 (not long ago), and that Natives were once white but cursed with dark skin-- and denies their true history and modern DNA evidence in favor of white supremacist religious ideologies.

To top that off, Utah is one of the most racist states in the US, was one of the last to accept Martin Luther King's national memorial day, and unlike other states will still gather for political functions on his holiday.

Hinckley: "Flicks of History" & "It's in the Past"

Two favorite lines of Hinckley's whenever being questioned with anything difficult, including Polygamy and Racism in the LDS church or its history - were to say that those issues are "flicks of history" and "in the past; behind us now". It's amazing to hear considering the immense suffering that Blacks and non-whites endured previously in the LDS church, and the incredible, undeniable suffering of women in polygamy then and now, thanks to Joseph Smith and official Mormon doctrine.

As the video above shows, it is pretty damning. Of course, this coming from "God's One True Church on Earth" and God's 'inspired prophets'!

Hinckley twists and distorts the truth; LIES about Polygamy!


The video title says it all, and the video speaks for itself. What amuses me especially is how Hinckely condemns polygamy and says it is 'not doctrinal' when it is in the Doctrine and Covenants, and previous prophets said it was ESSENTIAL to salvation and godhood.

Hinckley on Mormon Homophobia & Bigotry
   

Hinckley states: "we're not anti-gay, we're pro-family" but then in the next sentence goes on to say that gay people "have a problem" and the church is "helping" them. He admits he doesn't know if they're born that way or choose to be that way, and says he's 'not an expert' -- despite being the Prophet of God on earth, and leader of his True Church and receiving direct revelation.

Despite "not" being anti-gay, the LDS church has meddled in US politics, supporting bills (politically and financially) that ban gay marriage and equal-rights for homosexuals.
Hinckley doesn't mention the at least 40 or more documented gay & lesbian suicides in the LDS church since 1984, including 3 men in 2000 who committed suicide over the church's involvement in trying to pass Proposition 22: Clay Whitmer, DJ Thompson, and Stuart Matis. He also of course, doesn't mention BYU's history of shock therapy and pornography "treatments" for gays, and other things.

Hinckley gets a BUILDING as a Birthday gift!


It's a good thing that Mormon prophets "don't get paid"! No, they only live the jet-set lifestyle, bought and paid for by LDS Church funds. And apparently if you're really good and live to be 97, you get your own building! That, and the Prophet of the LDS church is also the head of all LDS corporations and businesses (from LDS members' money, without public accounting), and no one knows exactly how much he receives from those. It doesn't hurt of course when a Prophet is white, already wealthy or comes from a long-line of Mormons.

For more on Hinckley's LIES, check out THIS GREAT POST. Give it a read.

Galatian's Note:

Gordon B. Hinckley's run as Prophet will always hold special significance for me because he was the President when I joined, the years I was an active member, and when I left the LDS church.

Probably what I will remember most about Hinckley are his media interviews and attempts to reach out to the press and obtain favorable publicity for the Church. I'm always astonished when I watch his interviews on prominent programs and see him outright lying about Mormon history, doctrines, modern beliefs and church practices. It simply boggles the mind that any true-believing-mormon (TBM) could watch these things and somehow justify them ... but with Mormons it's always "milk before meat" and "lying for the Lord" ... so what if we have to lie to obtain members? If they join and accept "the truth" they'll be thankful later on - won't they?

There's also Hinckley's involvement, and in my opinion - attempted cover-up and damage control, of the Mark Hofmann forgeries and murders. To learn more about Hinckley's dealings in that situation, read "Tracking the White Salamander" and research more in-depth.

It's somewhat sad to me when I reflect on what affection I used to have for the man. As a member I nearly cried one year as we sang songs for Hinckley's birthday at General Conference. Here I thought this was a prophet of God!

Now I only see a frail, elderly man at the end of his life, leading a dishonest organization and pretending to be God's representative on earth. It's difficult for me to respect Hinckley, because I am not even certain he was 'honest' in his faith.

Having grown up in the church and served it all his life, it would be easy to assume and believe that he must be deceived and somehow deluded into believing he speaks for God - and that his dishonesty comes from that.

However, I find it hard to accept that a man with that much experience in the church, knowledge of it, and moderate intelligence -- would not have realized it was a fraud and sham by this point. Being the President, having access to the LDS church archives and restricted documents, having dealt directly with Mark Hofmann and knowing all he does (that regular members do not) I can't quite say that I don't believe he knew it was all a lie but carried it on anyway. Why stop now, after a lifetime of devotion? Being in charge and having people hail you as a 'prophet of God' and treat you like a rock star - why stop it? Having billions at your disposal, flying private jets around the world and meeting with politicians and important figures - why turn it down?

I do feel badly for Hinckley's family because it's always a personal tragedy for people to lose a father, grandfather or loved one. And this is no exception because dishonest or not - he was human and had people who loved him and will miss him.

At the same time however, I can't help but reflect and feel badly for all the families and friends of Mormons who committed suicide due to the destructive teachings and policies of Hinckley and the LDS church. I feel badly for all the missionaries who have died on their missions in the last few years -- all in vain. I feel badly for all the people's lives who have been destroyed by Mormonism during Hinckley's tenure as Prophet.

The man will be praised by Mormons, and perhaps he's done some admirable things in his life; yet I also think of the damage perpetuated by the LDS cult, and Hinckley at the head of it all these years.

On an end note, there is some irony in his death. I generally believe that his life is now over and his body will naturally decay in the earth and go through all the processes which happen biologically. I mean no disrespect by this, I just literally figure that is the case. But even supposing I am wrong and he is 'elsewhere' in some unknown metaphysical place -- I can confidently say that I am CERTAIN he will be discovering that Mormonism is a fraud and that he led a destructive worldwide organization all these years.

So much for speaking on behalf of God ...

Two Year Anniversary

I am so pleased and happy to announce that today is my Two Year Anniversary of leaving Mormonism!
I looked back on some old journals, and it was recorded on January 14th, 2006 that I had officially decided that Mormonism was a fraud, and that I was going to leave the Mormon Church.

It was the beginning of a new year, and I struggled through the various levels of: denial, bargaining, justification, anger, and sadness, until I reached acceptance ... and finally gratitude.

In the two years since I have learned much about the real history of Mormonism, the truth about the church, and I have finally grown up and found my place in 'the real world'.

I no longer live in a self-deluded fantasy, and I will always be proud of myself for leaving Mormonism, for escaping the indocrination and guilt, and for thinking for myself.

I have studied Christianity, history, religion in general, evolution, science and many more subjects. I have learned more in the last two years of study than I learned in 8 years of Mormonism. But the process of learning is an on-going thing, which will never end.

I am so much happier, and I feel a peace in my heart that was missing for those eight years. I feel self-acceptance, I feel acceptance for others, and I marvel at the beauty of this world that I once so arrogantly condemned and took for granted.

Tears come to my eyes, because I don't even know how to express how grateful I am, to have left Mormonism, how much more free my spirit is, how wonderful life really is.

Leaving Mormonism was painful and difficult, but it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life. I'm so proud of myself, so happy to have done it, and I truly hope I can help others in their journey out of it.

I am in debt to those who took the time and effort to expose Mormonism, and to tell the truth. To all those who wrote articles, made videos, made websites and blogs, to those who spoke openly ... I owe my education to you. I owe my freedom to you. Thank you for the work you have done, and please know it has not been in vain.

Is this how it feels to be free?

Is this how it feels to be me?

Today I smiled, because I feel alive --

for the first time, in a long time.

Cheap Mormon Books

I wanted to do a post to share with everyone some resources on how and where to get cheaply priced Mormon-related books.

The Mormon Historical Reference Library

This is a fantastic collection of books, available very cheaply on cd-rom. For only $9.99 (US) plus $2.00 shipping & handling ($5.00 for international) you will get all the following books -- see below -- plus an assortment of other documents on a variety of topics.

Payment can be made via Paypal, check (US), or Money Order. This is an excellent bargain!

Some of these are real gems. For instance there is John D. Lee's book (his confessions and life), there's Eliza Young's book (one of Brigham's wives and her story), and writings by Mormons and ex-Mormons alike; all painting a real picture of early Utah, the beginning of the LDS church, and what the leaders were like in person. The 6 Volumes of "The Story of the Mormons" is an incredible book - worth the price alone!

For more information, including purchasing/payment: CLICK HERE.

Here is the list:

“The Golden Bible” by Rev M. T. Lamb

“Mormonism Unvailed” by E. D. Howe

“The History of Utah, 1540 - 1886.” by Hubert Howe Bancroft

“Brigham’s Destroying Angel” by Bill Hickman

“Wife No 19” by Ann Eliza Young

“Mormonism Unveiled” by John D. Lee.
(Also known as “The Confessions of John D. Lee”)

“Life In Utah” by J.H. Beadle.

“Reminiscences of Early Utah” by R.N. Baskin

“Exposition of Freemasonry” by Capt William Morgan

“2000 Changes in the Book of Mormon” by Lamoni Call.

“Tell It All” by Mrs. (Fanny) T. B. H. Stenhouse.

“A History of Illinois” by Governor Thomas Ford.
(Excepts from the book concerning the Mormons in Nauvoo)

“1830 Book of Mormon” (Divided into the current Chapters and verse used by the LDS church today)

“Book of Commandments” (Today known as the Doctrine & Covenants)

“John Whitmer History” by John Whitmer

“The Women of Mormondon” by Edward W. Tullidge (.txt format)

“The Seer” by Orson Pratt

“Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith” by Lucy Smith. (The version that Brigham Young tried to destroy! I also show you why.)

“View of the Hebrews” (2nd Edition) by Ethan Smith

“Manuscript Story” by Solomon Spaulding (I also give you a comparison between this story and the Book of Mormon.)

“Evidences in Proof of the Book of Mormon.” by Charles Thompson

“Book of the Law of the Lord.” by James J. Strang

“Jerald and Sandra Tanner’s Distorted View of Mormonism:A Response to Mormonism—Shadow or Reality?” by a Latter-day Saint Historian (I also give the Tanners’ response)

“A Brief History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” by John Corrill

“The Story of the Mormons” (all 6 volumes) by William Alexander Linn

“A Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” by B. H. Roberts (all 6 volumes) (.txt)

“Mormonism and Masonry” by S. H. Goodwin

“A Collection of Facts Relative to Sidney Rigdon” by Jedediah M. Grant

“Mormonism Exposed” by LaRoy Sunderland

“The Story of Polygamy” by Jennie Anderson Froiseth

“Mountain Meadows Massacre” by Josiah F. Gibbs

Sherlock Holmes in: “A Study in Scarlet” by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

“Riders of the Purple Sage” by Zane Grey

Joseph Smith’s “White Horse Prophecy”

“Oration” by Sidney Rigdon (The controversial 4th of July, 1838 speech)

“Lectures On Faith”

“King Follett Discourse”

“Expulsion of the Mormons” by John P. Greene.

“The Nauvoo Expositor” (The newspaper that Joseph Smith destroyed)

“Manuscript History of Brigham Young” by Brigham Young

“Facts Respecting the Rise and Progress and Pretensions of the Mormons” by William S. West

“Roughing It” by Mark Twain (Excepts from the book concerning the Mormons in Utah–very funny)



JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES

The Journal of Discourses are a very revealing look at some of the first prophets, their teachings, and the early beliefs of the LDS church. It is 26 volumes: a collection of the sermons of Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F. Smith.

It's very interesting to read such gems as: Young's teachings on God being Adam, his dreams of slitting throats, his hatred of apostates, thoughts on Doctrine, etc. There's also a lot of chastising personal members, complaining about the Indians, bragging about Mormon exploits, and more.

All 26 volumes are available on PDF format for $10 (US), or cd-rom for $15, not including S&H.

To purchase the PDF format: CLICK HERE.

To purchase the CD Version: CLICK HERE.

Note: To buy the Journal of Discourses in book form, at a place such as Deseret Books would cost you a fair amount. This is a great deal, and these volumes are worth having.



TANNER BOOKS

Sandra and Gerald (now passed) Tanner are ex-mormons who are greatly respected for their research and publications regarding Mormonism. For many years they have researched into Mormon history, and have ascertained a great wealth of knowledge, surpassed by few other people today. With Tanner writings, you know you will always be provided with a good bibliography, references, documentation and quotations. They have extensively covered many aspects of Mormonism and have been the source many times for leaked or never-before-seen documents surfacing in the public arena.
Their books are well written, and available to purchase for cheap prices; they are more concerned with getting the content out than they are with reaping financial rewards.
"Tracking the White Salamander: The Story of Mark Hofman, Murder and Forged Mormon Documents".
Price: $8.00 (US) Not including S&H. To order: CLICK HERE.
"Mormon Claims Answered".
Price: $4.00 (US) Not including S&H. To order: CLICK HERE.
(Although this book was written by Marvin W. Cowan, he has allowed the Tanner's to publish a cheaper paper copy and distribute it.)
"Curse of Cain: Racism in the Mormon Church".

Price: $6.00 (US) Not including S&H. To order: CLICK HERE.

"3,913 Changes to the Book of Mormon".

Price $14.00 (US) Not including S&H. To order: CLICK HERE.

(Note: This book is the photo reprint 1830 Book of Mormon with all the changes marked in and noted, as well as a 16 page introduction by the Tanners explaining the significance.)



The Tanner's also have the following books available in cheap paper copies:

"Mountain Meadow's Massacre" by Josiah F. Gibbs. ($4.00) CLICK HERE.

"Brigham's Destroying Angel: Being the Life, Confession, and Startling Disclosures of the Notorious Bill Hickman." ($5.00) CLICK HERE.

"Exposition of Freemasonry" by Captain William Morgan. ($5.00) CLICK HERE.



MORE BOOKS:


"By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus" by Charles M. Larson.
For a limited time, this book is offered FREE to LDS members, with only a $3.00 shipping charge (US) or $5.00 shipping charge (international).
It can also be ordered from IRR for only $8.95 (plus shipping) for non LDS members, or when the free offer expires.
For more information, or to order: CLICK HERE.
***

I will be adding to this list as time goes by, it will be an ongoing article. If anyone has any suggestions on other great cheaply-priced books and documentation, leave me a note or email.

Michael Hunter (Update)

It appears that Shawn McDonald has lost his court battle to gain custody of his own son, Michael Hunter. Shawn McDonald is the biological father to Michael-Hunter, and was not aware of his son until two days before he was born.

Hunter was given up for adoption through LDS Family Services by his mother, without Shawn's consent. The baby was taken to Idaho and given to an LDS couple there, whom Shawn has been fighting in court. Shawn already has a 3 and 1/2 year old daughter with his ex, but for some reason she felt the need to give Hunter up for adoption, and she and LDS Family Services clearly conspired to hide the pregnancy and ensuing adoption from Shawn.

Shawn has been going through a living nightmare, that I cannot even begin to imagine, although I sympathize fully and completely. He was granted visitation with his son, and some monetary compensation to cover legal bills. This recent ruling is a major blow, and in my opinion - extremely unjust. LDS Family Services gets away with their kidnapping tactics yet again!

Here are some words from Shawn, a little over a year ago:

On his daughter: "She's missing out on her brother, too."

On how LDS Services wins: "And that's how they get it done, they just drain people, make you spend all your money on lawyers when they got endless amounts of money, you know."

What Shawn's previous lawyer, Rob Kersey had to say: "I've never seen an agency take off with a child. Nobody has a custody order. Nobody has anything."

Well obviously Mr. Kersey had never dealt with LDS "Family Services" before, but lawyers all across the country are getting an education in LDS illegal/immoral tactics more than ever!

(For a link to the original article: click HERE)

I would like to know how much the LDS church is contributing towards legal bills for the Hess's, and if they are covering all the legal fees entirely.


A video about the latest ruling:

Another earlier video, about the case:


We will see what legal proceedings are left for Shawn to pursue, and what will happen from here. The jury did award Shawn visitation which is good, but a minor consolation compared to having his own son - which should be his right! But as Shawn himself says, fathers have no real rights.
It's especially difficult for anyone to battle a multi-billion dollar corporation. The LDS church has millions at its disposal to throw away in order to ensure that an LDS couple gets the baby they want, and they have the resources to pump the ol' PR machine and make the father look as bad as possible. What average person can compete against such odds?

I will be keeping an eye on this case, and updating everyone as events occur. Shawn I just want you to know that many of us (probably all), in the ex-mo community support you fully, and our hearts go out to you in what must be an incredibly horrible ordeal.

BADMOUTHING FATHERS

I've been sickened (but not surprised) to read on message boards and forums, the nasty things people have to say about the fathers in these cases, particularly LDS people. They claim the fathers are unfit, bad people, selfish, arrogant and that the babies are better off in "two-parent" homes. The gossip abounds about the fathers being criminals or anything else that's negative and unsubstantiated.

First of all, no one is arguing that a two-parent stable home is not the ideal. Of course it is. But this is the real world, and not every baby is born into that situation. What gives the LDS church (or anyone else for that matter) the right to rip children away from parents that love and want them -- and give them to someone else based on religious/social standing?

Perhaps we should start taking children away from all single parents and giving them to LDS couples. If you earn under $40,000 a year? Your baby gets taken and given to an LDS couple. Did you used to have an addiction? Ever been to rehab or counselling for depression? Your baby is going to an LDS couple! Did you grow up in an imperfect family, or have a case of high blood pressure and heart disease? The baby is going to an LDS family! Did you once purchase an X-rated magazine as a teenage boy, or cheat during a high school exam? Your baby is going to an LDS family!

I mean, it's absolutely ludicrous! What person is perfect? What family is perfect? Who can score A+ in every part of life and meet unrealistic qualifications? No one! The only reason the LDS church is able to get away with this is because they usually do it very secretively, and they are experts at kidnapping children, no exaggeration! It's swept under the rug because no one wants to face the issue, no one wants to deal with it, and everyone is too damn PC. And the LDS people won't complain because ... when Mormons do it, it can't be wrong! The church is always true!

Everything these spectators have to say about the fathers amazes me, since they don't even know them personally. But somehow everyone knows everything, and "knows" that these men could not be good parents, or are rotten people, or that the LDS couple can provide a better life. How do they know? I suppose it must be the burning bosom!

The mud slinging is just fantastically pathetic, but typical. It's like my own brother who witnessed a stabbing. He held the victim as he was dying, trying to stop the bleeding and save his life. Only to have it thrown back at him later on in court, with LDS Family Services implying that he's unfit to be a father because he is "implicated in a murder". I mean, it sure makes it sound a lot different than what actually happened!

I for one, am utterly repulsed at the rude messages, judgmental messages, and LDS-can-do-no-wrong-brainwashed messages people have written about Shawn McDonald, Matt Tenneson, Cody O'Dea and others. All because these men WANT THEIR OWN CHILDREN! Their own flesh and blood children whom they were denied for no proper reason ... children that were simply moved out of state and given away to LDS couples like some toy or trinket!

How can the states, and the government of America allow such kidnappings to go on and turn a blind eye? This is incredible! And it needs to be exposed for the country and world at large to see!

I am not advocating the idea that fathers should win custody merely because they are the father. For instance, a father who is a known heroin addict, who has been convicted of spousal abuse, and who has a history of molestation or violence in his family obviously should not get custody. But come on, we all know that those sort of cases are a rare event! Most fathers trying to win their children back from LDS couples are normal, loving people with normal families who are losing because they don't have the money to fight, and they aren't Mormon. If a father is functional, loving, and not abusive -- his rights should be considered first, as is only logical, ethical and fair under the law.

At least give the fathers equal rights. Judge them based on their own merits. They deserve that much! They deserve the same consideration and treatment that LDS couples receive.


LDS FAMILIES ARE NOT PERFECT

LDS people are like anyone else: imperfect. They have the same flaws and struggles as non-LDS people do. I was a Mormon for 8 years, and knew many Mormon families, and they were not perfect. Case in point:

I knew a woman (whom I respect greatly) who was an LDS member. She babysat my son. She was a kindhearted, smart, loving woman that I can't say a bad thing about. She and her husband were not able to conceive and so they adopted a daughter through LDS Family Services.
A few years later, her husband had an affair and left her. This "temple worthy, two parent home" underwent a very sad divorce and situation. Did giving this girl to an LDS home ensure that her life would be perfect, or that she would have two parents? No.

That is not an isolated case. I know many stories very similar, and the same, as the one just mentioned. Yes, there are great LDS families, but there are many imperfect ones, dysfunctional ones, or sad ones as well. Because LDS people are just like everyone else. And pretending that they are perfect and can give a superior life to a child as opposed to the father or non-LDS people is just the epitomy of arrogance and foolishness.

If LDS children were being taken from the mothers and given to Catholic couples, or Jewish couples on a regular basis -- the church would be in an uproar! But somehow, because it's LDS couples taking other people's children, it's "God's will" and acceptable. And seeing as Utah is the most corrupt state in terms of adoptions (and many other things), everyone turns a blind eye. The legislature regarding adoption isn't going to change any time soon - because Utah is Mormon controlled! And the corruption goes on ...


Every day I cannot open a newspaper, or go on the internet, or do anything without seeing how the LDS church is destroying people's lives. For such a small organization (only 13 million worldwide or less) it causes catastrophes everywhere. I'm in awe of how such a small cult can create such devastation continually.

There needs to be proper investigations, publicity and measures taken to change the adoption laws in Utah, and elsewhere. And we need proper watchdog groups monitoring LDS Family Services and others, and holding people accountable for kidnapping and baby selling.

We sure as hell can't count on the Mormon church doing it. Mormon members generally believe they are following 'God's will', and that they are right, their church can do no wrong, that they have the one and only "true church and truth" of the universe, and are on their way to Godhood in eternity everlasting! There is no reasoning with these people or this organization. We need outside, non-LDS intervention NOW!

Adoption Center of Choice

Tip of the Iceberg?

Well it's no surprise to any of us in the ex-mormon community that aside from the LDS church being a huge con-job sucking in millions of well-meaning people, that LDS Family Services is a rotten, money-making web of deceit, illegal ventures, kidnapping and absolute corruption.

But there is another adoption agency which time and time again comes into the news for its bitter custody disputes, kidnapping techniques and complaints. It's called the "Adoption Center of Choice".

As I mentioned in a previous entry, a current battle going on in the courts is that of Cody O'Dea who is fighting for the right to have custody over his own child whom he never gave consent to adopt out. The reason I included his story, is because originally he was dealing with LDS Family Services who then opted out of the adoption (unlike in so many cases), although they still have their fingerprints all over this story! Read more about it at: http://www.babyselling.com/

There are several other high profile cases involving the Adoption Center of Choice, which you can look up on Google, read complaints about, or see on the O'Dea's website.

An Ugly Connection?

We all know that LDS is rotten to the core, in everything they touch. Whether it's hiding polygamy, taking in billions in tithes (not accounting for the money), past murders, hiding/buying up embarrassing documents, kidnapping children through LDSFS, doing temple ordinances for Nazis, the list goes on ...

But could there be an ugly Utah-adoption connection?

When we look at the Adoption Center of Choice we find striking parallels in how it conducts itself and the complaints of those who have been abused by it, namely fathers. Could there be an LDS (Mormon) connection?

Everything from the slick maneuvering to the state-jumping, to the winning on gross "technicalities" and more, is classic LDSFS territory.

At RipoffReport.com, "Kathy" writes:

"Very briefly I would like to say the attorney who represents this fraud-practicing adoption agency is named Larry Jenkins.

His law office is called Wood, Crapo LLC located at 500 Eagle Gate Tower at 60 E. South Temple in Salt Lake City, Utah with a zip code of 84111.

My concern about this agency since this lawyer is located in the same office building where the Mormon church's principal adoption lawyer is also located, is that Adoption Center of Choice comprises an elaborate fraud scheme especially since no contact names are ever listed for this adoption agency."

I myself know little about the Adoption Center of Choice other than the official website I've viewed, stories I've read, and what little information is available on the internet. From what I've gathered there seems to be numerous horror stories relating to this agency, and it just gets uglier the deeper you scratch.

What disturbs me is the fact that Larry Jenkins office building is apparently located in such close vicinity to the Mormon church's principal adoption lawyer, and that his agency uses classic LDS techniques when it comes to unethically giving away children.

You'll remember now that Larry Jenkins is also representing the Neilson's in their on-going battle to keep Harvey. (Although they were court ordered to give custody over to the father until everything was sorted out, they are refusing and continuing on in their illegal and immoral conduct -- with the help of Jenkins!)

Now you can be assured that if the Mormon church isn't completely footing the bill for the Neilson's (which it probably is), then it is at least contributing significantly. Interestingly, the Neilson's did not hire an LDS lawyer, but hired Jenkins. Or is Jenkins LDS? That would certainly be interesting to know!

If the LDS church is footing the bill, then that means that it is paying Jenkins directly.

Information on a Connection?

If anyone has ANY information on a possible connection or links between the Adoption Center of Choice and the LDS (Mormon) Church ... please let me know!

Is the ACoC just another 'secular' branch of the LDS adoption system? Using the LDS techniques and members but going by another name and under different paperwork?

Are the ACoC lawyers and employees mainly comprised of LDS faithful members?

At the very least, do the ACoC and the LDSFS have some sort of working relationship or 'understanding'? Because it seems to me in a lot of these stories, even when the LDS Family Services is not involved directly, the ACoC is conducting bad operations for LDS couples!

Any useful information or tips would be helpful. Thanks.

Also, whenever LDS is involved ... you can always smell money down the trail. It should be of no surprise to anyone then, when I mention that the adoption industry brings in billions a year, and that it costs tremendous amounts of money to become a prospective adoptive parent through the LDS system (and others), and to finalize an adoption.

Here is a great blog that everyone should visit:

http://beyondbabytamia.blogspot.com/

Documenting the adoption corruption in Utah -- a full time job in itself!

Harvey's Story (Update) / Michael's Story

This adorable boy is named Harvey. As reported earlier, he was kidnapped from his biological father, and unjustly adopted by a Mormon couple.

The father of the baby has been going through legal battles in order to get him back, while Harvey lives with the Neilsons, his "adoptive" parents.

Last week, a judge ordered that Harvey's father should have temporary primary custody of him while the whole affair is sorted out. But the Neilsons are refusing to give Harvey back.

From Deseret News:

"During a court hearing last week, an Idaho judge gave the birth father, Matt Tenneson, 20, temporary primary custody of the 5 1/2 month old baby.

But Jed and Callie Neilson, who have had the baby since June, say they won't give baby Harvey back without a legal fight. In fact, they say they are thinking optimistically and have been buying Christmas presents for the baby."

"The Neilsons are now being represented by adoption attorney Larry Jenkins, with Wood Crapo LLC, of Salt Lake City. "

" LDS Family Services, which handled the Neilsons' adoption, is appealing the custody issue to the Idaho Supreme Court. LDS Family Services has employed Idaho Falls adoption attorney Kent Foster.

As an agency, LDS Family Services is reserving public comment until after the court case is resolved. "

To read the entire article, click on the LINK.

The article does mention that the father had a nursery ready, had taken child-development classes and read books in preparation. It also states that the magistrate who ruled in Matt's favor believed that the Tenneson's could provide a good home for Harvey.

Deseret cynically contacted Matt to ask "why" he wants custody of his own son, and then reports, "Tenneson declined to comment on why he wants custody of the baby. Knight says she believes Tenneson's mother is the driving force behind the fights for custody."

Why the paper needs to ask the father why he wants custody of his own baby is beyond me. It doesn't appear to be rocket science, does it? Also, since Knight has done everything in her power to help the Nielson's I don't think we need to believe her statement about Matt's mother. What good mother wouldn't help her son try to gain custody, and wouldn't want to see her own grandchild?

I imagine that the Mormon church is the one paying all the legal costs associated with this, for the Neilson's. And that LDS Family Services and the Mormon church will arrogantly and despicably do everything in their power not to return Harvey to his own father who wants him!

Also in the article, they mention about the Idaho Putative Father Registry. The Father Registry is for fathers who are not married to the birth mother and who have not established paternity through legal proceedings. All men should be registered in case any legal dispute should occur in the future.

My comments on this are the following: most fathers do not know that they need to register, and have no idea what the PFR in any state/province is, or its importance.

Also, as the LDS Family Services told me during my own personal ordeal ... most fathers do not know about it, will not know about it in time, and they can easily squeak by on the technicality that the fathers did not place their name and had no desire for the child. They literally told me this! So it was of no surprise to me to see this mentioned in the article.

Another Kidnapping: Michael Hunter

This is just so appalling and sickening. Shawn McDonald from north Texas, has also lost his son. His son was given up for adoption without his consent through (surprise!) LDS Family Services, and according to Shawn he didn't even know about his son's existence until 2 days before the birth!

His son is now 18 months old and he still is fighting through the courts. Imagine going every night and day through agony thinking about your own child (nearly two years old) who should have been with you in the first place. Thankfully so far he has at least been awarded visitation and $100,000 to cover legal expenses.

Here's a story from CBS:

North Texas Father Fights For His Parental Rights Jack Fink Reporting (CBS 11 News)

DALLAS -- Shawn McDonald says he only found out about his baby two days before the child was born. He says he was powerless to stop the mother from giving the baby up for adoption. This legal battle is now being fought here at the Henry Wade Juvenile Justice Center.

A jury must decide if the father will lose his parental rights for good. “I'd love to be a father to him,” McDonald said. McDonald says he never got the chance to be a father to his son, Hunter. The boy is now 18 months old and since birth, has lived with his adoptive parents, Travis and Sabra Hess, in Idaho.

"[It] Really hurts emotionally... work time... every thought is nothing but this," McDonald said. Now a Dallas County jury will decide whether the Hess’ can keep Hunter and terminate McDonald's parental rights.

Kathryn Lanigan-Wieser is McDonald's attorney. "This case involves a kidnapping,” she said. “They stole Shawn's child." McDonald's attorney accuses the birth mother Samantha Myers and Eric Larson, of Latter Day Saints Family Services, of conspiring to keep the birth and adoption a secret.
McDonald says he had previously broken up with Myers, and that they share custody of a three and a half year old girl. McDonald says he only found out about Hunter on July 2, 2005, two days before he was born in Fort Worth.
"The baby was shipped off to Idaho before Shawn could do anything,” Lanigan-Wieser said. “In fact, they hid the identity of the Hess’. Shawn didn't know where the baby was until the Hess’ intervened in the lawsuit in September, 2006.”
The Hess’, LDS Family Services and the birth mother all declined comment. But in court papers, LDS Family Services and its social worker, Eric Larson say McDonald knew Myers was pregnant and abandoned the child.
But the adoptive parents said in court papers that LDS told them McDonald was "out of the picture" and "could not be located." The Hess’ want to keep Hunter. They say that changing his home now could negatively impact the baby.
That's not something Shawn McDonald wants to consider. "I would have to think about that for the rest of my life,” McDonald said. Among the options for the jury include terminating McDonald's parental rights and leaving the child with the adoptive parents, giving McDonald sole custody, or giving primary custody to one of the parties with the other getting visitation.
Keep strong Shawn, keep strong! We're all rooting for you.

Visit Shawn's MySpace page and show your support:

http://www.myspace.com/babymichaelhunter